Re: What is music ... = spirals


Subject: Re: What is music ... = spirals
From: John Kamevaar (jacobus.kamevaar@sympatico.ca)
Date: Tue Nov 22 2005 - 20:20:19 EST


The cone, of course... it echoes in numerous dimensions. And the cone
is in a sense iconic - as a referent to formal properties, from speaker
cones to illustrations of sound wave transversals. And as a solid it
stands on a base that is perfectly contiguous with it even as it
circumscribes its limit, its apex a virtual point at the other cut-off
frequency.
On Nov 22, 2005, at 4:42 PM, Kenneth Newby wrote:

> Yes... spirals are a better representation of the somewhat paradoxical
> sameness yet difference of octaves. Depending on how you orient the
> spiral it can reflect our culturally determined notions of lowness and
> highness of pitch, i.e. with a vertical orientation.
>
> Other cultures use different metaphors for pitch, such as small
> frequencies = large and large frequencies = small, suggesting a spiral
> in a cone shape as a culturally appropriate alternative.
>
> How else could a 3D space be used to effectively represent a pitch
> space? Tenney matrices? (These have always confused me.)
>
> Kenneth.
>
> On 22-Nov-05, at 12:54 PM, John Kamevaar wrote:
>
>> The spiral may be recursive exemplary par excellence but the circle,
>> abstracted from its specificity (area) also bends back upon itself.
>> Octaves "appear" to me as pointillistic powers.
>> Given the "infinite" divisibility in the 20 to 20k range, wouldn't a
>> 3D space be a more appropriate abstraction than the circular plane?
>> On Nov 20, 2005, at 4:36 PM, Kenneth Newby wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm... I wonder if we're conflating objective features with
>>> subjective (perceptual) here? Color and pitch are both percepts and
>>> both have a "circular" nature: the circular nature of perceived
>>> color and the circular nature of octave equivalence. Both color and
>>> pitch can be represented as frequencies but neither of these
>>> frequency representations imply circularity.
>>>
>>> Kenneth.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20-Nov-05, at 1:19 PM, Kevin Austin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you noticed that the color spectrum (from red to violet ...
>>>> red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet) cab be represented as a
>>>> circle (or perhaps a spiral?), while low frequency to high
>>>> frequency sound do not form a 'circle', or spiral.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very off topic ...
>>>>
>>>> And on a related (?) topic, does anyone have a more precise
>>>> measurement of the perfect fifth (in cents) than 701.955 ... ?
>>>> Using this more precise number, the pythagorean comma is 23.260 000
>>>> 000 001. Using this more precise figure, the spiral away from the
>>>> returning perfect fifth will itself spiral away, a helix on top of
>>>> a helix.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 09:56 +0100 2005/11/20, stefaan watté wrote:
>>>>> maybe of related interest;
>>>>>
>>>>> about pitch perception;
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?
>>>>> client=opera&rls=nl&q=pitch+illusion&sourceid=opera&ie=utf
>>>>> -8&oe=utf-8
>>>>>
>>>>> &
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.philomel.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>



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