Re: traduction/translation

Subject: Re: traduction/translation
From: Kevin Austin (
Date: Wed Oct 26 2005 - 21:53:46 EDT

Thank you.

The model presented allows for a mapping of the discussion so that
the physical is not confused with the philosophical.

At 10:34 -0700 2005/10/26, Kenneth Newby wrote:
>The notion of meaning however, does seem to bring us back to a
>situation where focus and field might again enter the discussion.

You will notice that in the model, meaning comes from understanding,
which has required perception / decoding, and context.

>The tracing of sound to source, or causal listening to use Chion's
>taxonomy, seems to mirror this mechanism:

I think my previous comment still holds, perception and context.

>using the sound and all its perceptual features,

I think this is what the model tries to clarify; the 'sound'
(molecular displacement) has no perceptual features.

>horizontal, vertical, as you mention the subsidiaries that allow
>us to focus on the meaning of the sound.

Again, the model proposes that the "sound" does not have 'meaning'.
The meaning is derived from interpretation of perception, within
contexts (in a very gross sense).

>In the notion of reduced listening we focus on the perceptual at the
>risk of losing meaning.

You may have noticed in the proposed model, "listening" is not
located. I take a leaf from Eliot's propositions that it may be
necessary to create new ways of understanding how perception and
interpretation 'work'.

>Of course, this is an expanded sense of meaning as Chion provides
>another form of listening he terms semantic, in which a sound
>symbolizes something (language, sound signals, etc.).

The model I presented had a last column that looks something like:

(PSYCHOMETRIC) - - - - - - - - - > imagination

Psychological / philosophical
   - historical
   -- sociological
   --- cultural
   ---- critical / descriptive
   ----- philosophical (speculative)

                             Linguistic organization

        Understanding imagination

           Meaning creativity

   past-present future


I have taken "meaning" to be the derived element from / cause of "semantic".

>I would follow Polanyi in this to allow both semantic and causal
>listening as forms of meaning.

Among many many others perhaps.



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