Re: Postmoderinism : Revised quick guide


Subject: Re: Postmoderinism : Revised quick guide
From: bill thompson (innerd00r@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Oct 04 2005 - 18:20:47 EDT


--- Morgan Sutherland <skiptracer@gmail.com> wrote:

> That confuses me even further. I liked the original
> explanation which
> was apparently wrong?

ah morgan you make me laugh :) it is a confusing
subject so don't worry...most of the experts don't
agree. it doens't really matter anyway. theory comes
after music...so write the music and let them write
the theory after you :)

b.

--- Morgan Sutherland <skiptracer@gmail.com> wrote:

> That confuses me even further. I liked the original
> explanation which
> was apparently wrong?
>
> On 10/4/05, andre_mc@alcor.concordia.ca
> <andre_mc@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
> >
> > WOW!
> >
> > IMM that might be the clearest, most concise
> explanation of postmoderinsim that
> > I have read.
> >
> > the boundary references that are usually present
> in PM explanations (ie
> > qualifications so as to avoid dispute regarding
> other PM definitions), dissolve
> > into the whole of the explanation.
> >
> >
> > 2 cents for what its worth
> >
> > andrew
> >
> >
> > From eliot Handelman>>
> >
> > >
> > > I'm trying to help clarify a few topics in
> musical postmodernism offering
> > > a (of course) idiosyncratic interpretation. I
> don't want argue about
> > > 12-tone music.
> > >
> > > PM is to me mostly about problems of
> communication in the light of
> > > the circumstances of the world we inhabit. It's
> not about a style.
> > >
> > > One important issue is that whereas the world
> *is* going somewhere,
> > > we're at the beginning of the most radical
> social revolution that ever
> > > happened,
> > > escalating changes, etc.
> > >
> > > In the Ferrari interview that someone mentioned,
> Ferrari said:
> > >
> > > "I think 1968 benefitted from our action."
> > >
> > > May 68 is in fact THE event that defines the
> enlightenment impulse in all
> > > later discussions of postmodernism, especially
> when french writers are
> > > concerned.
> > >
> > > This was still the moment when artists "were the
> antennae of the race,"
> > > in Pound's phrase.
> > > By making your little noises you were somehow
> helping to create a new
> > > feeling about the
> > > kinds of freedoms that were possible and which
> should be taken (see also
> > > F.'s comments
> > > about a workshop realization of Tautologos 3 "I
> am free, you know ...")
> > > and which eventually WERE taken.
> > >
> > > Postmodernism, in some (I think important)
> ways, means "post-68".
> > >
> > > One paradox of postmodernism is that in many
> ways art DID succeed in its
> > > social views about creative liberation. Everyone
> can now be an artist on
> > > their
> > > own terms and find their own public. This was
> totally not true even in
> > > Ferrari's day -- the GRM said about "presque
> rien 1": "it wasn't music."
> > >
> > > Of course F laughs about this, as do we, because
> how can it not be music
> > > if someone
> > > says it is? Do we require anything more? I may
> not like it ... but to
> > > challenge its
> > > ontology --- to situate music in some space
> beyond its actual practice?
> > > People used to
> > > talk about "the rules of music," but nowadays we
> say "the rules of a
> > > style" and what we
> > > probably mean has something more to do with
> Chomsky than with parallel
> > > fifths.
> > >
> > > So one aspect of postmodernism is : art has
> become a "social practice", or,
> > > of course, many social practices.
> > >
> > > At the same time, if I may say so, this is
> exactly NOT how that part of
> > > the world
> > > that is organizing our revolution works. Let's
> take one example -- the
> > > protocol.
> > >
> > > Eg, TCP/IP or 'the "information processing
> paradigm" of cognitive science,
> > > etc. Standardization can have enormous power to
> create foundations on
> > > which things
> > > can be built.
> > >
> > > Now we get into the "blank slate" problem. If we
> are, in fact, purely
> > > social organisms,
> > > then we have infinite freedom to say who we are
> and to become whatever
> > > we want.
> > >
> > > If we are actually complex machines with
> built-in programs, our freedom is
> > > illusory or, to put it in a different way: there
> is such a thing as
> > > music. It's music
> > > not because someone says so, but because we can
> observe the music part
> > > of the
> > > brain doing something when we scan ourselves.
> > >
> > > Postmodernism in music means to me: address this
> discrepancy.
> > >
> > > Of course there are also many ways of thinking
> about PM as "the end of
> > > ..." but
> > > I'm personally much more interested in "the
> beginning of ..."
> > >
> > > PM is NOT, to me, importantly about "there are
> 10 million active
> > > composers at present,
> > > and all of these different styles, so how to
> make your mark." NOT.
> > >
> > > PM is likely to be: there is no distinction
> between producer and
> > > consumer. Excuse
> > > me while I kiss the sky.
> > >
> > > Or composing will become a kind of serious
> research in a way that it
> > > never was.
> > >
> > > Or new kinds of virtuality.
> > >
> > > Or the ability to confer technical possibilities
> on everyone.
> > >
> > > These things all have one common issue --
> listener-centricity.
> > >
> > > To me that's the single most important issue
> surrounding the problem of
> > > postmodernism.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >In other words, 9/13 of postmodernism is still
> modernism.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > We only ever have intimations of postmodernism
> -- the quote from the
> > > Gibson book
> > > I was mentioning earlier. It's an imaginative
> sweep at present, not a
> > > product.
> > >
> > > >Okay, but postmodernism includes a vast swath
> of everything, making it
> > > >possible to pick and choose what can be
> perceived.
> > > >
> > > Picking and choosing is a kind of
> listener-centricity -- remember what
> > > one of the punks
> > > around here said a few years ago -- that
> arranging songs in playlists is
> > > a creativity of no
> > > different order than anything else. There's
> something to that.
> > >
> > >
>
=== message truncated ===

www.billthompson.org

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"The more you think about things the weirder they seem." -Calvin

        
                
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