Quick guide to preception

Subject: Quick guide to preception
From: Kevin Austin (kevin.austin@videotron.ca)
Date: Tue Oct 04 2005 - 09:53:12 EDT

I would prefer that you consider 'my' perceptions _different_ from
'yours', and not "wrong", but you may not be able to do that, as you
note below.

At 13:48 +0100 2005/10/04, Richard Wentk wrote:
>This sounds like the mistake Kevin made about speech being timbral.
>Speech may be timbral,

Speech isn't 'timbral', as such, nothing is 'timbral'. Timbral
requires temporal gathering and segmentation, as does pitch, and

To test this: take a short spoken phrase in a language you do not
understand, time stretch it to 32 times its original length. Listen
to the the shifting 'tone colors' (sic), reduce this to a 16 times
stretch and repeat. Reduce to 8, 6, 4, and twice its original length.

At what point do _you_ (a singular 'you', not the general), now cease
hearing spectrally?

Say the word "music" very slowly, as
Listen for the formant glisses. As you say the word more quickly, as
what point do _you_ cease hearing the formant glisses?

It may happen that my hearing is "faster" than 'your' hearing, and
that I do hear speech as timbral. People who have edited a great deal
of speech will likely 'sharpen' their ears to "hear" things that
others may not be aware of.

It may be that "you" don't hear it as timbral, and that 'you' may
hear it as "language", but that maybe "your preception", mine may not
be the same as yours.

>but (if we can understand it) we don't hear it as timbre in the
>musical or acoustic sense, we hear it as language - as something
>that has more in common with written words than it does with
>abstract sound.

Abstract(ed) sound is a whole other thread, for another time.

It could be that "you" don't hear music as narrative in the
linguistic sense, does not negate other peoples' perceptions.

If "you" don't hear tonal music "tonally", does this negate my experience?

>So in the same way we don't hear music as narrative in the
>linguistic sense, even when there's a sense of tension and
>development. Any more than we experience a streetmap as narrative
>when we're trying to 'go' from one place to another.

Not my experience here either. We seem to be so so so so different.



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