Re: Quick guide to postmodernism (was: Re: Gibson

Subject: Re: Quick guide to postmodernism (was: Re: Gibson
From: Richard Wentk (
Date: Tue Oct 04 2005 - 08:48:49 EDT

At 23:48 03/10/2005, you wrote:
>Ok, I stand corrected, assuming this person wasn't misdiagnosed. Were the
>episodes brought
>on by drug use, eg.

I never found it. It was a case of 'And here's my friend. She's
occasionally schizophrenic.'

>I'd agree with that. The seriously threatening problem of schizophrenia
>is that the world may seem to be
>flowing into you, stealing pieces of your sense of autonomy, robbing you
>of your identity, etc. The "map" is,
>first of all, a kind of emotional landscape interconnected with many
>forces beyond your
>control that generates meanings. But then as the poet said, Hell is a
>place, much like seville.

But without the oranges. :-)

>Ok, I get you. My concept of "we" is that we can never really know it in
>the way that I think I
>have a feeling of "I". In my usage, "we' isn't necesarrily human at all --
>consider again the problem
>of "the hand."

Yes and no. I think it's more a case of whether your model of self sees
relationships as internal or external. People seem to be external, but
relationships can be either.

Either way I think it's an open question - lots of possible views, no
definitive answers.

>Clearly any sense of expectency in music, the feeling that music "should"
>go this way or that
>is narrative, because "go" is a narration all by itself.

This sounds like the mistake Kevin made about speech being timbral. Speech
may be timbral, but (if we can understand it) we don't hear it as timbre in
the musical or acoustic sense, we hear it as language - as something that
has more in common with written words than it does with abstract sound.

So in the same way we don't hear music as narrative in the linguistic
sense, even when there's a sense of tension and development. Any more than
we experience a streetmap as narrative when we're trying to 'go' from one
place to another.

It's true there's some overlap - just as it's true that speech is timbral -
but I think this is missing out some important differences between musical
perception and the experience of textual or dramatic narrative. Not least
of which is the difference between associative and concrete modes of


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