Re: Le mat?riau Sonore, hidden place

Subject: Re: Le mat?riau Sonore, hidden place
From: Philippe-Aubert Gauthier (
Date: Fri Sep 16 2005 - 10:22:24 EDT

Tassman includes the possiblity to combine Mallet to tube resonance (replacind a
membrane), etc. So that you can create things that connot exist.

(Also note that many composers interested by physical model are often using it
to make publicity so that it save money (you don't need the musician) and
nobodies can make the difference in a 30 seconds publicity using simple melody
and a full quality compressed master ... in a reality show. Its also used a lot
for gaming to create "real sound", see Perry Cook's book. Maybay more than for
composer in research of innovation or fresh sounds)

Interestingly, it still sound quite "natural" (mallet and tube) and your are not
really surprised by such combination. Since most of the physical governing laws
of oscillation are often the same (optics, electromagnetics, acoustics,
vibration, non-linear oscillations, dispersion, etc.), its not, on physical or
sytem basis producing so much different or new sounds. We already know all
(really) possible sound out from physical law, either if this a real physical
law or even a theoretical modelling (including analytic, symbolic or numerical
(digital if you like)). I can work on a computer station next door in our
computer labs to create the most incredible physical objects including pipes,
air cavities, different materials: homogeneous, hetereogenous, porous,
impossible materials with no damping, couple this with a uge room. And then
make this finite-element software work for age and, month laters, get a nice
impulse response of this incredibly complex object and you probably won't get
too much surprise from this sound ... since again belong to the physical law

I think that a very thrilling part of complex modelling using computer might
come from the invention of "physical laws", constraints and laws that must be

Selon Morgan Sutherland <>:

> I can't wait for the time when we will cease trying to recreate pianos
> in complexity and start making new instruments with such complexity.
> Physical modelilng of things that cannot exist.
> On 9/16/05, Michael Gogins <> wrote:
> > Until recently, computers have not been fast enough to simulate the
> complexity of the grand piano.
> >
> > This will change. A Linux cluster should now be capable of modelling all
> the strings, the soundboard, and some of the hammer striking sounds, and of
> course the recital hall -- not in real time of course, but in a usable time.
> Probably do several live notes per workstation in the cluster, or something
> like that.
> >
> > To get a picture of what this might mean, check out the analogous software
> for the pipe organ, Aeolus (of course the pipe organ is much easier to model
> than the grand piano). This software presents a good model of an 18th century
> pipe organ. Like many accurate digital simulations, it is "hyper-real", it
> has all the features of the real thing but in a pristine, noiseless space,
> and with less "movement" within the sound.
> >
> > One wouldn't mistake Aeolus for a real organ, at least not if one had
> recently HEARD a real organ, but one can probably use Aeolus to make a
> musically interesting rendering of Bach or Franck or whatever, which would
> have been impossible before. I would say it is much better than an electronic
> church organ.
> >
> > It would in fact be challenging to render some Bach or Franck or Messien by
> taking complete control over dynamics, phrasing, registration, etc. in ways
> that would not be possible for a live player.
> >
> > I think it would be possible to get the movement within the sound with some
> additional work, also, perhaps convolving with a changing impulse response.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard Wentk <>
> > Sent: Sep 16, 2005 9:13 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Le mat?riau Sonore, hidden place
> >
> > At 01:35 16/09/2005, you wrote:
> >
> > >well, it's not a contest right? and it depends on what
> > >you mean by 'broader' and 'pallet'. i think what
> > >ned's talking about is how complex, say the sound of a
> > >piano note is when you play a key and listen to the
> > >sound of it decay...the sound is incredibly complex,
> > >resonates with the other strings, different harmonics
> > >(or partials, or overtones, whatever) reinforce and/or
> > >cancel each other, and this all occurs over a period
> > >of time and is influenced by how well it's tuned, how
> > >hard you hit the key, the temperature in the room,
> > >etc.
> >
> > I listened to someone performing professionally on a top of the line
> > Bosendorfer recently, and it was *the* most amazing thing. The initial half
> > second or so of each chord was perfectly in tune (or as in tune as anything
> > can be in 12ET), and then all the partials seemed to decorrelate
> > simultaneously to produce a fantastic chorus and bloom.
> >
> > I've listened to quite a few pianos over the decades, and it's the first
> > time I've ever heard a sound quite like that.
> >
> > > to try to do that with a computer, well, we're
> > >not there yet. and i'm not sure i'd want to be..there
> > >are plenty of things a computer can do that a piano
> > >can't...
> >
> > But there's always the issue of quality versus quantity. Begin able to make
> > an endless variety of sounds becomes less interesting if few are musically
> > worthwhile. Or if they're less musically worthwhile and satisfying than
> > acoustic instruments.
> >
> > There's a *huge* amount still to find out about the intricacies and nuances
> > of acoustic instruments, both as sound generators and as performance tools.
> > I think it's a shame to concentrate on virtual experiences so much when
> > acoustic experiences still remain richer and more interesting.
> >
> > Bridging the gap is a good thing to aim for, but I think that's going to
> > need much better tools and more imaginative thinking about synthesis than
> > we seem to have available today.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

% Philippe-Aubert Gauthier, ing. jr , M.Sc.
% Étudiant au doctorat en reproduction de champs acoustiques
% GAUS (Groupe d'Acoustique et de vibrations de l'Université de
% [ Sherbrooke)
% CIRMMT (Centre for Interdisciplinary research in Music, Media
% [ and Technology)

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