Re: Re : (junk yard dog in) hidden place

Subject: Re: Re : (junk yard dog in) hidden place
From: miriam clinton (iriXx) (
Date: Thu Sep 15 2005 - 09:35:32 EDT

Jim... i have an urgent mission for tea and peak freans at sylvi's...
lend me a rocket please!!!
make that two rockets and we'll both make it up oer the stairs ;p

*sigh*..... John Oswald in Vancouver.....

sylvi macCormac wrote:

>yo hello
>well said / read ;-) ... this is a wonderful dis cussion ... per cussion ...
>still 'listening' :-)
>btw, John Oswald is performing with Glenn Gould at th Western Front,
>Vancouver, 8:pm.
>do *fly* round for Tea :-) .. that would be easy for Jim with NASA's rockets
>... ;-)
>i just have to figure out how to climb o'er 30 stairs ... i'd ride up in th
>Dumb Waiter, if they had or could 'invent' one ;-)
>best, macCormac / sylvi
> / na / da / bc
>siwash rock & soundscape composition
>dis abled in vaudeville / nashville sound check
>YO! Able Dis! on line at Kalvos & Damian's New Music Bazaar
> - yo able dis !
> - text & image
> - 2005 interviews
>ASCAP Deems Taylor Award-winning show featuring Music
>and Interviews with Non-Pop Composers from around the world
>including Laurie Anderson, Jean Pich, Pamela Z, John Oswald (dat dab
>boy o plunderphonics)
>UTS'AM / WITNESS song sound story
>for John Clarke / Xwexwslkn (1945-2003)
>1 Sxwi7shenalkwlh / Deer Song (3:02)
>Xlek' Seky Siym / Chief Ian Campbell
>2 All My Relations (2:14) Sandy Scofield
>3 Plants (2:56) Veda Hille
>4 Child of the Wind (4:08) Bruce Cockburn
>5 Island (3:03 xrpt) Barry Truax
>6 Carving Canoes: for th Wild (3:55)
>sylvi macCormac
>7 Broken Land (3:35) Sandy Scofield
>8 Beneath the Forest Floor (3:20 xrpt)
>Hildegard Westerkamp
>9 Starwalker (3:03) Buffy Sainte-Marie
>10 Red PercentX (4:00) Kinnie Starr
>11 Midnight Forest Run (3:55) Shel Neufeld
>12 Horizon (5:00) sylvi macCormac
>13 Northern Loon (1:55) Anthony McNab Favel
>14 Wind in the Cedars (2:00) Jeremy Williams
>15 Witness: Round Journey with Squamish
>Spirit, Jouney & Honour Songs (18:10) sylvi macCormac
>16 Tkaya / Wolf Song (8:10)
>Spkwus Sllum / Eagle Song Dancers
>(p) 2004 Uts'am / Witness. all proceeds to
>and - wilderness education programs
>"miriam clinton (iriXx)" wrote:
>>i found your point of view most refreshing and tend to agree with the
>>issues you raised.
>>i disagree respectfully with Ned regarding the notion that "a lot of the
>>electronica that Louis is bored with is simply electroacoustic music
>>created by people who didn't study it in University". I learnt far more
>>about music once i /left/ the safe confines and self-justification by
>>textbooks and musicology/the study of aesthetics in academia - as one of
>>my wiser tutors warned me, musicology is the study of itself (i.e. she
>>implied that it was up its own *rse. and yes, i swear and enjoyed a
>>little refreshment with the unorthodox debate a few months ago although
>>not entirely agreeing with nor condoning its content!) i enjoyed the
>>refreshment of unorthodox, un-kosher, unafraid to be un-kosher argument
>>by someone who i know to be a highly intelligent musician and producer
>>and whom i have worked with many times.
>>aside from this...
>>the story is: a lot of people, but only a few have 'IT'. that spark that
>>is real talent. this can exist within or without the academic world -
>>Autechre, anyone? or Aphex Twin - although perhaps I should suggest
>>Orbital as they are equally intelligent musicians yet they do not belong
>>to the 'new complexity' school emerging in underground dance which seems
>>to satisfy the academic's need for self-justification.
>>it is this very desire for self-justification, proving oneself by backup
>>materials, quoting X philosopher and Y and Z aesthetician to justify a
>>piece of /MUSIC???/ which frustrates me. where is the music when it is
>>wrapped up in proving itself? to a psychologist it would be seen as an
>>exercise in acting out one's insecurities via bully-boy tactics - I'm
>>better than you because my textbook is bigger than yours and I can hit
>>you with it in the playground. Thats pretty much what it amounted to to
>>me, and thats why I left the cosy confines of the academic world.
>>Thats not to say I dont enjoy intelligent music from both composers in
>>the employ of universities and composers from dance underground - or
>>elsewhere (John Oswald would have to be a favourite of mine, and his
>>style falls into no genre except one which he invented via his own
>>experimentations with turntables and tape-machines as a kid -
>> Nor do I dislike all music based on
>>philosophical context. I just see a large majority of people labeled as
>>having 'IT' i.e. talent, and pronounced 'kosher' (err, for that matter,
>>why kosher and not halal, vegetarian or macrobiotic?) to the academic
>>my senses in listening search for IT. that elusive IT that one may even
>>find glimpses of, fleeting moments in an otherwise dull piece.
>>IT can come from anywhere... to quote from one who has IT (Howard
>>Jones)... 'out of thin air'
>>bill thompson wrote:
>>>hi luis,
>>>i'm sorry if i came off indignant...well, now that i'm
>>>off my soap box, in many ways i agree about the lack
>>>of innovation in most music that considers itself
>>>'new' or 'experimental', particularly electronic/ea.
>>>it's not just in academic ea concerts either. the
>>>last few so called cutting edge festivals (kill your
>>>timid notion, subcurrent, etc) featuring artists that
>>>aren't academically oriented but don't fit into
>>>mainstream pop, (they might be more of a new punk-like
>>>category but doing experimental, mostly electronic
>>>music, non-beat etc)...well, i was mostly disappointed
>>>as well. most of the musicians didn't seem aware of
>>>what it was they were trying to do...often i got the
>>>feeling that they didn't know what the goal was, so
>>>how was i supposed to? (there were exceptions though,
>>>such as amm, tony conrad, wolf eyes, and La Cellule
>>>d'Intervention Metamkine, all excellent)...
>>>so, not much of a crap filter in that world either.
>>>but i wonder if there are other factors in the ea
>>>world though that hinder innovation? i'm speaking
>>>naively here, as someone who's only now peeking in
>>>from the outside as it were, but it seems that there
>>>is a certain 'standard' that is expected to be upheld,
>>>certain musical laws (or principals) to be followed,
>>>and a status quo to be met. but i've noticed that
>>>often even when these are all observed that the pieces
>>>sometimes 'fail' or come off limp and
>>>unsatisfying...sometimes (it seems to me) as a result
>>>of trying to satisfy these (unspoken?) expectations,
>>>almost as though the pieces were curbed or restrained
>>>from going somewhere really incredible...
>>>i'm curious what would occur if someone were to 'come
>>>out swinging' and do something that really challenged
>>>ea conventions, typical music principals, and current
>>>'standards', not a 'new guy' but someone already
>>>established within the ea would that
>>>work be received? sense is that ea composers are
>>>expected to be innovative, but only so much, within
>>>boundaries, and only so fast...(i'm sure this is a
>>>very narrow view-i'm probably more then half-wrong
>>>here ;))
>>>it does worry me as someone considering a career in
>>>academia though, if pressures due to being a lecturer,
>>>presenting work as a result of 'research', and meeting
>>>unspoken expectations to not challenge convention 'too
>>>much' will negatively impact what i have worked so
>>>hard for, my (fledgling) voice.
>>>on the other hand, outside of academia, i often get
>>>the feeling that there is a rebellion against
>>>perceived 'standards/conventions/principals' but
>>>instead of re-investigating those ideas personally, a
>>>blind rebellion occurs and 'out goes the baby with the
>>>bath water' and you're left with 'freefolk'. (yes, i
>>>said it, i realllllly don't like it :))
>>>so who knows. myself, i enjoy artists in and out of
>>>academia who seem to be creating music that has some
>>>integrity to them as an individual artist, and isn't
>>>towing the line for any 'tradition' overtly (although
>>>i recognize we all work within the context of some
>>>tradition)...that's my bias and i'm very much
>>>attracted to 'freshness' even to a fault.
>>>and quickly, i do enjoy experimental inst'l work (both
>>>by composers and free improv instrumentalists) too..i
>>>don't really listen to non-experimental instrumental
>>>music unless it's one of the 'old guys' (webern on
>>>back)...i like the spectralists too and some of the
>>>noisier romanians (dumitrescu/avram), but also the
>>>free-improv guys like john butcher, greg kelly, peter
>>>brotzman etc, as well as some new artists based in
>>>london, rhodri davies and mark wastell...also the old
>>>greats, scelsi, xenakis, scavarda, lacheman, nono,
>>>etc...i don't think they've been matched yet.
>>>ps...not sure what to say about your theory of the
>>>cost acting as a filter...i'm sure there's some truth
>>>to it, but wouldn't the increase in availability of
>>>equipment/shows and thus activity in the ea world
>>>produce more quality as well as crap?
>>>"The more you think about things the weirder they seem." -Calvin
>>>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>>99% of aliens prefer Earth

99% of aliens prefer Earth

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