Re: Re : (junk yard dog in) hidden place

Subject: Re: Re : (junk yard dog in) hidden place
From: sylvi macCormac (
Date: Wed Sep 14 2005 - 12:25:07 EDT

yo hello

well said / read ;-) ... this is a wonderful dis cussion ... per cussion ...
still 'listening' :-)

btw, John Oswald is performing with Glenn Gould at th Western Front,
Vancouver, 8:pm.

do *fly* round for Tea :-) .. that would be easy for Jim with NASA's rockets
... ;-)

i just have to figure out how to climb o'er 30 stairs ... i'd ride up in th
Dumb Waiter, if they had or could 'invent' one ;-)

best, macCormac / sylvi
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ / na / da / bc
siwash rock & soundscape composition
dis abled in vaudeville / nashville sound check

YO! Able Dis! on line at Kalvos & Damian's New Music Bazaar - yo able dis ! - text & image - 2005 interviews

ASCAP Deems Taylor Award-winning show featuring Music
and Interviews with Non-Pop Composers from around the world
including Laurie Anderson, Jean Piché, Pamela Z, John Oswald (dat dab
boy o plunderphonics)


UTS'AM / WITNESS song • sound • story
for John Clarke / Xwexwsélkn (1945-2003)

1 Sxwi7shenalkwlh / Deer Song (3:02)
Xálek' Sekyú Siyám / Chief Ian Campbell
2 All My Relations (2:14) Sandy Scofield
3 Plants (2:56) Veda Hille
4 Child of the Wind (4:08) Bruce Cockburn
5 Island (3:03 xrpt) Barry Truax
6 Carving Canoes: for th Wild (3:55)
sylvi macCormac
7 Broken Land (3:35) Sandy Scofield
8 Beneath the Forest Floor (3:20 xrpt)
Hildegard Westerkamp
9 Starwalker (3:03) Buffy Sainte-Marie
10 Red PercentX (4:00) Kinnie Starr
11 Midnight Forest Run (3:55) Shel Neufeld
12 Horizon (5:00) sylvi macCormac
13 Northern Loon (1:55) Anthony McNab Favel
14 Wind in the Cedars (2:00) Jeremy Williams
15 Witness: Round Journey with Squamish
Spirit, Jouney & Honour Songs (18:10) sylvi macCormac
16 Tkaya / Wolf Song (8:10)
Sp’ák’wus Slúlum / Eagle Song Dancers

(p) 2004 Uts'am / Witness. all proceeds to
and - wilderness education programs

"miriam clinton (iriXx)" wrote:

> bill,
> i found your point of view most refreshing and tend to agree with the
> issues you raised.
> i disagree respectfully with Ned regarding the notion that "a lot of the
> electronica that Louis is bored with is simply electroacoustic music
> created by people who didn't study it in University". I learnt far more
> about music once i /left/ the safe confines and self-justification by
> textbooks and musicology/the study of aesthetics in academia - as one of
> my wiser tutors warned me, musicology is the study of itself (i.e. she
> implied that it was up its own *rse. and yes, i swear and enjoyed a
> little refreshment with the unorthodox debate a few months ago although
> not entirely agreeing with nor condoning its content!) i enjoyed the
> refreshment of unorthodox, un-kosher, unafraid to be un-kosher argument
> by someone who i know to be a highly intelligent musician and producer
> and whom i have worked with many times.
> aside from this...
> the story is: a lot of people, but only a few have 'IT'. that spark that
> is real talent. this can exist within or without the academic world -
> Autechre, anyone? or Aphex Twin - although perhaps I should suggest
> Orbital as they are equally intelligent musicians yet they do not belong
> to the 'new complexity' school emerging in underground dance which seems
> to satisfy the academic's need for self-justification.
> it is this very desire for self-justification, proving oneself by backup
> materials, quoting X philosopher and Y and Z aesthetician to justify a
> piece of /MUSIC???/ which frustrates me. where is the music when it is
> wrapped up in proving itself? to a psychologist it would be seen as an
> exercise in acting out one's insecurities via bully-boy tactics - I'm
> better than you because my textbook is bigger than yours and I can hit
> you with it in the playground. Thats pretty much what it amounted to to
> me, and thats why I left the cosy confines of the academic world.
> Thats not to say I dont enjoy intelligent music from both composers in
> the employ of universities and composers from dance underground - or
> elsewhere (John Oswald would have to be a favourite of mine, and his
> style falls into no genre except one which he invented via his own
> experimentations with turntables and tape-machines as a kid -
> Nor do I dislike all music based on
> philosophical context. I just see a large majority of people labeled as
> having 'IT' i.e. talent, and pronounced 'kosher' (err, for that matter,
> why kosher and not halal, vegetarian or macrobiotic?) to the academic
> palate.
> my senses in listening search for IT. that elusive IT that one may even
> find glimpses of, fleeting moments in an otherwise dull piece.
> IT can come from anywhere... to quote from one who has IT (Howard
> Jones)... 'out of thin air'
> mC~
> bill thompson wrote:
> >hi luis,
> >
> >i'm sorry if i came off indignant...well, now that i'm
> >off my soap box, in many ways i agree about the lack
> >of innovation in most music that considers itself
> >'new' or 'experimental', particularly electronic/ea.
> >
> >it's not just in academic ea concerts either. the
> >last few so called cutting edge festivals (kill your
> >timid notion, subcurrent, etc) featuring artists that
> >aren't academically oriented but don't fit into
> >mainstream pop, (they might be more of a new punk-like
> >category but doing experimental, mostly electronic
> >music, non-beat etc)...well, i was mostly disappointed
> >as well. most of the musicians didn't seem aware of
> >what it was they were trying to do...often i got the
> >feeling that they didn't know what the goal was, so
> >how was i supposed to? (there were exceptions though,
> >such as amm, tony conrad, wolf eyes, and La Cellule
> >d'Intervention Metamkine, all excellent)...
> >
> >so, not much of a crap filter in that world either.
> >but i wonder if there are other factors in the ea
> >world though that hinder innovation? i'm speaking
> >naively here, as someone who's only now peeking in
> >from the outside as it were, but it seems that there
> >is a certain 'standard' that is expected to be upheld,
> >certain musical laws (or principals) to be followed,
> >and a status quo to be met. but i've noticed that
> >often even when these are all observed that the pieces
> >sometimes 'fail' or come off limp and
> >unsatisfying...sometimes (it seems to me) as a result
> >of trying to satisfy these (unspoken?) expectations,
> >almost as though the pieces were curbed or restrained
> >from going somewhere really incredible...
> >
> >i'm curious what would occur if someone were to 'come
> >out swinging' and do something that really challenged
> >ea conventions, typical music principals, and current
> >'standards', not a 'new guy' but someone already
> >established within the ea would that
> >work be received? sense is that ea composers are
> >expected to be innovative, but only so much, within
> >boundaries, and only so fast...(i'm sure this is a
> >very narrow view-i'm probably more then half-wrong
> >here ;))
> >
> >it does worry me as someone considering a career in
> >academia though, if pressures due to being a lecturer,
> >presenting work as a result of 'research', and meeting
> >unspoken expectations to not challenge convention 'too
> >much' will negatively impact what i have worked so
> >hard for, my (fledgling) voice.
> >
> >on the other hand, outside of academia, i often get
> >the feeling that there is a rebellion against
> >perceived 'standards/conventions/principals' but
> >instead of re-investigating those ideas personally, a
> >blind rebellion occurs and 'out goes the baby with the
> >bath water' and you're left with 'freefolk'. (yes, i
> >said it, i realllllly don't like it :))
> >
> >so who knows. myself, i enjoy artists in and out of
> >academia who seem to be creating music that has some
> >integrity to them as an individual artist, and isn't
> >towing the line for any 'tradition' overtly (although
> >i recognize we all work within the context of some
> >tradition)...that's my bias and i'm very much
> >attracted to 'freshness' even to a fault.
> >
> >and quickly, i do enjoy experimental inst'l work (both
> >by composers and free improv instrumentalists) too..i
> >don't really listen to non-experimental instrumental
> >music unless it's one of the 'old guys' (webern on
> >back)...i like the spectralists too and some of the
> >noisier romanians (dumitrescu/avram), but also the
> >free-improv guys like john butcher, greg kelly, peter
> >brotzman etc, as well as some new artists based in
> >london, rhodri davies and mark wastell...also the old
> >greats, scelsi, xenakis, scavarda, lacheman, nono,
> >etc...i don't think they've been matched yet.
> >
> >b.
> >
> >ps...not sure what to say about your theory of the
> >cost acting as a filter...i'm sure there's some truth
> >to it, but wouldn't the increase in availability of
> >equipment/shows and thus activity in the ea world
> >produce more quality as well as crap?
> >
> >
> >
> >b.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >........................................................................
> >"The more you think about things the weirder they seem." -Calvin
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> 99% of aliens prefer Earth
> --Eminem

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