Fwd: from AUDITORY -- Whereof, why and whatfor of music, mind and memory


Subject: Fwd: from AUDITORY -- Whereof, why and whatfor of music, mind and memory
From: Kevin Austin (kevin.austin@videotron.ca)
Date: Mon Feb 28 2005 - 08:13:02 EST


>Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:00:01 -0500
>Subject: AUDITORY Digest - 26 Feb 2005 to 27 Feb 2005 (#2005-35)
>Sender: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception
>
>There are 9 messages totalling 595 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in cases of
>brain damage? (8)
> 2. FW: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in cases of
>brain damage?
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:03:25 -0400
>From: "Dennis P. Phillips" <Dennis.Phillips@DAL.CA>
>Subject: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in cases of
>brain damage?
>
>Hello Everyone:
>
>I wonder if there might be a misunderstanding here. Is it true that
>"musical abilities are among the last to be lost in cases of brain
>damage" is some kind of general rule about brain function? An
>alternate view has three points.

>First, musical ability is mediated by somewhat different brain
>regions than is language function. Second, competent language
>function is also arguably more common than is competent musical
>function, so selective impairments in the former may be more visible
>for that reason. Finally, we perhaps hear more about the survival
>of musical skill in aphasia, than survival of language skills in
>amusia, because aphasia is so staggeringly obvious and debilitating
>when it occurs. None of this disputes that in other patients with
>brain damage, the reverse pattern of deficits is seen, i.e., musical
>skills are impaired while language function is relatively preserved.
>As examples, please see:
>
>Peretz, Belleville & Fontaine
>Dissociations between music and language functions after cerebral
>resection: A new case of amusia without aphasia.
>Can J Exp Psychol. (1997) 51: 354-68 (in French).
>
>Piccirilli, Sciarma & Luzzi
>Modularity of music: evidence from a case of pure amusia.
>J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry (2000) 69: 541-545.
>
>Peretz & Zatorre (Eds.)
>The Cognitive Neuroscience of Music
>Oxford University Press, 2003.
>
>I hope that this helps. All good wishes,
>
>Dennis P. Phillips
>Killam Professor in Psychology
>Dalhousie University
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 07:37:14 -0800
>From: Brian Gygi <bgygi@EBIRE.ORG>
>Subject: Re: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in
>cases of brain damage?
>
>I wonder how much of the resiliency of musical abilities also has to
>do with the fact that so much of it involves motor/muscle memory as
>well as the other memory modalities. Certainly my "fingers" seem to
>remember musical pieces that I have little other recollection of.
>------------------------------

>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:27:44 -0500
>From: Robert Zatorre <robert.zatorre@MCGILL.CA>
>Subject: Re: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in
>cases of brain damage?
>
>
>Dear List
>
>I would echo Dennis' caution here. It's very easy For Oliver Sacks
>to say that musical abilities remain when other things are lost on
>the basis of a few (no doubt correct, and very interesting) clinical
>case studies. But to generalize this in any way is highly doubtful.
>Nobody has done a serious broad study confirming this. And there's
>no good neurobiological reason to expect it: music depends on the
>integrity of a wide range of neural circuitry, which when damaged
>will result in deficits. Musical skills are not somehow magically
>immune. Besides, as Dennis points out, there are plenty of case
>studies that show the opposite dissociation (music skill impaired
>with everything else intact), and specific musical deficits of
>various types have been widely documented after many types of brain
>damage in both musically trained people and in nonmusicians. Plus,
>you'd want to specify precisely which aspects of music might or
>might not be preserved,
>and in which types of brain damage. So let's not make broad
>generalizations without really thinking through what we mean.
>
>Robert
>
>
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D.
>Montreal Neurological Institute
>3801 University St.
>Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4
>phone: 1-514-398-8903
>fax: 1-514-398-1338
>web site: www.zlab.mcgill.ca

>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:33:37 -0600
>From: Thomas G Brennan <g_brennantg@TITAN.SFASU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in
>cases of brain damage?
>
>Robert, melodic therapies as well as melodic assessments (excluding
>for fluency problems) are based not on performance musical abilities
>but on the fact that it has been found that both those with stroke
>induced aphasia as well as those with tbi who are still motorically
>functional, at least to some degre, are very often able to produce
>some language and imitative behaviors if a melody of any kind is
>used even when language is otherwise totally gone such as in global
>aphasia.

>For obvious reasons you can't normally seriously intend that your
>clinical clients sing their way through life but for some that is
>essentially what ends up happening. These cases are not just looking
>at some form of musical ability but some connection between right
>and left hemisphere. I have not seen much of this kind of reference
>in split brain research but the above is the basis for melodic
>therapy. I would suggest reading some authors such as Schuel,
>Jacobson, Eisenson, or any of the other major names in aphasia work
>from the '60s through the mid '80s for more on this as well as look
>at some of the references in some
>of the melodic therapy tests and therapy kits.
>
>Tom
>
>Tom Brennan KD5VIJ, CCC-A/SLP
>web page http://titan.sfasu.edu/~g_brennantg/sonicpage.html
>

>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:56:33 -0500
>From: Robert Zatorre <robert.zatorre@MCGILL.CA>
>Subject: Re: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in
>cases of brain damage?
>
>
>Dear Tom
>
>Clarification: What I said was not meant to have any bearing on
>melodic intonation therapy. If someone does have relatively spared
>musical ability after brain damage, which many aphasics clearly do,
>then indeed one may be able to harness those abilities for
>therapeutic purposes. Bravo to those who are trying to figure out
>how and when this works.
>
>All I said was that I agreed with Dennis Phillips, that it is not
>very reasonable to assume that music somehow persists after any sort
>of brain damage. This is what the phrase "Musical abilities are
>among the last to be lost in cases of brain damage," which is the
>topic of this thread, strongly implies. It is simply not true, as
>cases of amusia demonstrate. But that
>does not mean that in at least some, or perhaps even many cases, it
>might be true. Just that it is not correct to think that any and all
>kinds of brain damage affecting everything else spares music, or
>that music is always the last to be lost. Sometimes it's the first
>to be lost.
>
>I suppose much hinges on Sacks' sentence, which as quoted by
>Chen-Gia Tsai, contains the word "often" (and this was omitted in
>further discussion). How often, one would like to know, is music
>spared, and where is the solid evidence for it? And is it "often"
>spared for certain kinds of brain damage, but "rarely" spared with
>other kinds? These are the sorts of questions that should be the
>topic of research. The interesting observations Sacks refers to are
>good starting points to develop more fine-grained hypotheses.
>
>Cheers
>
>Robert
>
>
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D.
>Montreal Neurological Institute
>3801 University St.
>Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4
>phone: 1-514-398-8903
>fax: 1-514-398-1338
>web site: www.zlab.mcgill.ca
>

>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:15:24 -0500
>From: Isabelle Peretz <Isabelle.Peretz@UMONTREAL.CA>
>Subject: Re: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in cases of brain
> damage?
>
>Well, Tom, I am sorry to say but the classic view by which
>non-fluent aphasics can sing words they cannot produce otherwise is
>a myth. When carefully tested, non-fluent aphasics produce as few
>words in singing and speaking. In 3 studies (Cohen & Ford, 1985;
>Hebert et al. Brain 2003;
>Peretz et al. Music Perception, 2004), the results indicate that
>verbal production, be it sung or spoken, is mediated by the same
>(impaired) language output system and that this speech route is
>distinct from the (spared) melodic route. Thus, the classic reports
>that non-fluent aphasic
>patients are able to sing, may simply reflect the dissociation
>between automatic speech (in singing) and propositional speech, such
>as in spontaneous speech. However, it is true that aphasics enjoy
>singing much more than speaking.
>
>Isabelle Peretz
>
>
>------------------------------

>From: g_brennantg@TITAN.SFASU.EDU
>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:43:16 -0600 (CST)
>To: Isabelle Peretz <Isabelle.Peretz@umontreal.ca>
>Subject: Re: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in cases of
>brain damage?
>
>I think the key in all of this is as you said, "may". Obviously one
>can find studies to support any position and there are plentiful
>studies to support the opposite view. As a clinician my primary
>concern is that what I do for patients works and so long as I can
>get results the rest is secondary. I've seen two of the papers
>you've quoted and will look up the third. Certainly any information
>to alter methodology in therapy can only be to the good of
>clinician's ability to be more effective and I appreciate your
>pointing out these studies for that reason.
>
>Actually, as fluency therapy has developed it has gone in a
>completely different direction than the specific aphasias and
>probably that neurogenic direction is more useful than any melodic
>model to aphasoid disorders.
>
>Tom
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:31:57 -0500
>From: chen-gia tsai <tsai.cc@LYCOS.COM>
>Subject: Re: Musical abilities are among the last to be lost in cases of brain
> damage?
>
>Dear Robert, Isabelle, Thomas, Brian, Dennis and others,
>
>Thank you for all informative responses.
>It was my mistake to omit the word "often" in Sacks' sentence. The
>subject of this discussion thread should be "Musical abilities are
>often among the last to be lost in cases of brain damage?"
>
>As indicated by Robert, the interesting observations Sacks refers to
>are good starting points to develop more fine-grained hypotheses. I
>think I should mention why I ask this question.
>
>Anton Neumayr (1997) discussed Czech composer Bedrich Smetana's
>syphilis, and how hearing disturbance and mental changes affected
>his compositions. It is interesting to note that in the final stage
>of syphilis, Smetana suffered from optical / acoustic hallucinations
>and memory disorder, but still composed fragments of opera "Viola".
>Anton Neumayr wrote: "Surprisingly, this torso of his last opera
>shows hardly any signs of his confusion, although at this point in
>time he was, with his creative activity, already at the edge of
>insanity." (Music and Medicine. Vol. 3, Chopin, Smetana,
>Tchaikovsky, Mahler: Notes on Their Lives, Works, and Medical
>Histories. Trans. by David J. Parent, p186, 1997)
>
>This recalls me several cases of brain damage mentioned by Sacks.
>However, the preserved musical abilities mentioned by Sacks are
>performing and perception. I wonder if there is any report of
>preserved composing ability in cases of widespread brain damage or
>dementia.
>
>
>Tsai, Chen-Gia
>------------------
>Post-doc. fellow
>Institute of Applied Mechanics, National Taiwan University, Taipei, Taiwan
>tsai_chen_gia@yahoo.com.tw
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>End of AUDITORY Digest - 26 Feb 2005 to 27 Feb 2005 (#2005-35)
>**************************************************************



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