Re: this subject is now closed / this subject is now open

Subject: Re: this subject is now closed / this subject is now open
From: macCormac (
Date: Fri Jan 21 2005 - 10:05:28 EST

yes as th others say this subject is too important to be closed
as long as it is polite and we can agree to dis agree :-O
and can speak our minds about th patriot act without fear of . . .

now were'nt we originally discussing over lattes
gender in electroacoustics and might follow to extend th equation to 'others'

what EA piece would a woman from Iraq create at IRCAM given access ?

iraq / ircam - notice how the words sounds are similiar . . .

if th world were open for everyone to share biscotti over computer terminals ?

sure we'd have crumbs in th channels but what else would be heard ?

"" wrote:

> I'm happy to see this discussion continue as long as it is polite and has
> some relevance to electroacoustic music.
> About affirmative action, I see mixed results. On the one hand, I firmly
> believe that affirmative action has on the whole been very good for
> American society (can't speak for Canada). On the other hand, logically
> speaking, it would seem that continuing affirmative action indefinitely
> would be equivalent to instituting a new caste system based on racial
> and/or gender discrimination, only opposite in direction to what
> historically was the case.
> Yet, given my reading of history and of human nature, the old style of
> discrimination is quite unlikely to permanently go away, so a mild form of
> affirmative action might be tolerable or even desirable as a kind of
> permanent antidote.
> Yet again, if I were in one of the affirmed minorities, given my own
> personal perhaps excessive self-confidence, I might well resent that as
> obscuring my actual being. In other words, people might see any success I
> might win as not being deserved.
> I'm not sure how to resolve this bind.
> In the arts, I feel that the effect of the political climate that has
> fostered affirmative action has been to encourage a politicized, rhetorical
> style. I personally don't care at all for this style, but then style is a
> matter of taste.
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: miriam clinton (iriXx)
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:19:02 +1100
> To:
> Subject: Re: this subject is now closed
> ok, one more reply, as sylvi is a good friend and colleague and someone
> i have enjoyed discussion with...
> i cannot deny, as a female bipolar and epileptic, that affirmative
> action has not been of some assistance in getting myself and others
> access to what we would not have been permitted to otherwise.
> i most certainly do not deny the great work of MLK.
> i simply think the /system/ by which affirmative action was applied has
> gone to extremes. it's become reverse discrimination. thats what i was
> trying to explain: that those who were in minority now enjoy an unfair
> advantage and have become the majority. that it's now hard for a white
> man to get a job.
> i believe /firmly/ in equality. i'd be a hypocrite, given my own
> (dis)abilities, if i did not. but i also strive, with my (dis)abilities,
> to make the best of the person i am, to rise above the difficulties i
> have, to enjoy the alternative abilities which a (dis) ability brings...
> i would believe that your work, also, sylvi, strives to do the same? we
> share the struggle - as well as the struggle for equality.
> but /equality/ is not what i'm seeing at the moment.
> this is what i see:
> as for (dis)abilities, i'd say there's more stigma than ever before. but
> thats another subject for a separate discussion - its a whole different
> kettle of fish. this began in the discussion of women vs men in e/a.
> i'm seeing the results of the affirmative action movement in /further/
> division between ethnic groups, and /more/ racial hatred, rather than
> harmony among different people.
> people resent the advantage of one group over another - whichever ethnic
> group this may be - white/black/hispanic/asian/turkish/balkan etc.etc. -
> each group is lashing out against the other when one gains an advantage
> over the other.
> thats a system that doesnt work.
> i'm seeing division, rather than harmony and equality, between the sexes.
> i'm seeing young girls brought up to hate men.
> i'm seeing reverse-discrimination to the point where it /does/ become on
> a level of the destructive element of the Nazi movement.
> i've seen this first hand, and i'm saddened by it.
> its destroying society.
> */surely there's a better way to achieve equality, and more importantly,
> _harmony_?/*
> that was my point.
> as i said before, i'm not gonna speak for Kwis's language though. that
> belonged to a seperate thread of his own, which i will not defend.
> mC~
> macCormac wrote:
> >dear CEC / CBC / BBC / ABC / BBC / ZBC
> >
> >i have withheld from writing but it's about time i do. Just as we have
> >freedom to speak our mind here (with out slamming others - either
> >directly or by asides) we cannot as individuals decide when a subject is
> >open / closed or when it needs further analysis. This discussion is
> >valuable in terms of ettiquette and nettiquette in th larger sense. i
> >did not hear Kevin ask to take this subject off line but sometime ago i
> >was going to ask that it was because it seemed to have veered from
> >gender with ea to bashing. i am writing now to voice my own thoughts on
> >some of what has been said.
> >
> >i find Thrashes emails to be of th violent sort, whether in fact it is
> >humour at all, dis-abling good folks through snide and cruel jest,
> >calling men and/or women by names often assoiciated with bodily parts
> >usually opposite to their gender. i recall when i spoke favourably of
> >Barry Truax, Eigenfeldt, Martin et al being of th highest calibre when a
> >student from Concordia wanted some news of studies here. Thrash aka Kris
> >aka Kiss my . . . wrote 'Lick My Power Pump'. Took me a while get it,
> >but i guess it's like that punk rock 'girl' band called Lick My Pole,
> >and he meant that i was either apple polishing and/or on th couch with
> >th director(s) or that he wished someone would lick his. i had already
> >graduated but regardless, i never did relate to that that kind o humour
> >. . . okay innit his masturbatory monologue but do we have to listen to
> >him blowing wind.
> >
> >While i do know there are evil wo/men (whether femisist or not) there
> >are many more kind souls (suffragettes et al) who have fought for
> >equality and access for all. Socio-psycho-paths reside in academica in
> >bakeries in rock and roll bands in co-operative housing in corporations
> >etc. Wherever they go they generally abuse individuals and any system to
> >their advance. Women / Men either Able / Disabled can all screw th
> >system in words and deeds. However for th most part feminism and
> >humanism has brought much to be thankful for in our lives including
> >Affirmative Action. We would not be here on line together discussing
> >gender issues unless good people had made significant inroads. While
> >there are some women who hate men and visa vi they may or may not be
> >Feminists/Humanists. i think that 'Feminazi' is an unfortunate term as
> >neither Nazism support women's or men's rights and Feminism does not
> >support Nazism. i do not believe Feminism has destroyed th fabric of
> >society or th family. Rather Feminism believes and works for th equality
> >of both women and men in every aspect of working and family life.
> >
> >best regards, sylvi macCormac
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > / na / da / bc
> >siwash rock and sounscape
> >mc squared dj babbling brook
> >grrrl dis abled in vaudeville
> >
> >
> >Kevin Austin wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>In my experience, we all seek greater tolerance from others.
> >>
> >>Hmmmmm
> >>
> >>Best
> >>
> >>Kevin
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> 99% of aliens prefer Earth
> --Eminem
> --
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