Re: this subject is now closed

Subject: Re: this subject is now closed
Date: Fri Jan 21 2005 - 10:04:37 EST

I'm happy to see this discussion continue as long as it is polite and has
some relevance to electroacoustic music.

About affirmative action, I see mixed results. On the one hand, I firmly
believe that affirmative action has on the whole been very good for
American society (can't speak for Canada). On the other hand, logically
speaking, it would seem that continuing affirmative action indefinitely
would be equivalent to instituting a new caste system based on racial
and/or gender discrimination, only opposite in direction to what
historically was the case.

Yet, given my reading of history and of human nature, the old style of
discrimination is quite unlikely to permanently go away, so a mild form of
affirmative action might be tolerable or even desirable as a kind of
permanent antidote.

Yet again, if I were in one of the affirmed minorities, given my own
personal perhaps excessive self-confidence, I might well resent that as
obscuring my actual being. In other words, people might see any success I
might win as not being deserved.

I'm not sure how to resolve this bind.

In the arts, I feel that the effect of the political climate that has
fostered affirmative action has been to encourage a politicized, rhetorical
style. I personally don't care at all for this style, but then style is a
matter of taste.

Original Message:
From: miriam clinton (iriXx)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:19:02 +1100
Subject: Re: this subject is now closed

ok, one more reply, as sylvi is a good friend and colleague and someone
i have enjoyed discussion with...

i cannot deny, as a female bipolar and epileptic, that affirmative
action has not been of some assistance in getting myself and others
access to what we would not have been permitted to otherwise.

i most certainly do not deny the great work of MLK.

i simply think the /system/ by which affirmative action was applied has
gone to extremes. it's become reverse discrimination. thats what i was
trying to explain: that those who were in minority now enjoy an unfair
advantage and have become the majority. that it's now hard for a white
man to get a job.

i believe /firmly/ in equality. i'd be a hypocrite, given my own
(dis)abilities, if i did not. but i also strive, with my (dis)abilities,
to make the best of the person i am, to rise above the difficulties i
have, to enjoy the alternative abilities which a (dis) ability brings...
i would believe that your work, also, sylvi, strives to do the same? we
share the struggle - as well as the struggle for equality.

but /equality/ is not what i'm seeing at the moment.

this is what i see:

as for (dis)abilities, i'd say there's more stigma than ever before. but
thats another subject for a separate discussion - its a whole different
kettle of fish. this began in the discussion of women vs men in e/a.

i'm seeing the results of the affirmative action movement in /further/
division between ethnic groups, and /more/ racial hatred, rather than
harmony among different people.

people resent the advantage of one group over another - whichever ethnic
group this may be - white/black/hispanic/asian/turkish/balkan etc.etc. -
each group is lashing out against the other when one gains an advantage
over the other.

thats a system that doesnt work.

i'm seeing division, rather than harmony and equality, between the sexes.

i'm seeing young girls brought up to hate men.

i'm seeing reverse-discrimination to the point where it /does/ become on
a level of the destructive element of the Nazi movement.

i've seen this first hand, and i'm saddened by it.

its destroying society.

*/surely there's a better way to achieve equality, and more importantly,

that was my point.

as i said before, i'm not gonna speak for Kwis's language though. that
belonged to a seperate thread of his own, which i will not defend.


macCormac wrote:

>dear CEC / CBC / BBC / ABC / BBC / ZBC
>i have withheld from writing but it's about time i do. Just as we have
>freedom to speak our mind here (with out slamming others - either
>directly or by asides) we cannot as individuals decide when a subject is
>open / closed or when it needs further analysis. This discussion is
>valuable in terms of ettiquette and nettiquette in th larger sense. i
>did not hear Kevin ask to take this subject off line but sometime ago i
>was going to ask that it was because it seemed to have veered from
>gender with ea to bashing. i am writing now to voice my own thoughts on
>some of what has been said.
>i find Thrashes emails to be of th violent sort, whether in fact it is
>humour at all, dis-abling good folks through snide and cruel jest,
>calling men and/or women by names often assoiciated with bodily parts
>usually opposite to their gender. i recall when i spoke favourably of
>Barry Truax, Eigenfeldt, Martin et al being of th highest calibre when a
>student from Concordia wanted some news of studies here. Thrash aka Kris
>aka Kiss my . . . wrote 'Lick My Power Pump'. Took me a while get it,
>but i guess it's like that punk rock 'girl' band called Lick My Pole,
>and he meant that i was either apple polishing and/or on th couch with
>th director(s) or that he wished someone would lick his. i had already
>graduated but regardless, i never did relate to that that kind o humour
>. . . okay innit his masturbatory monologue but do we have to listen to
>him blowing wind.
>While i do know there are evil wo/men (whether femisist or not) there
>are many more kind souls (suffragettes et al) who have fought for
>equality and access for all. Socio-psycho-paths reside in academica in
>bakeries in rock and roll bands in co-operative housing in corporations
>etc. Wherever they go they generally abuse individuals and any system to
>their advance. Women / Men either Able / Disabled can all screw th
>system in words and deeds. However for th most part feminism and
>humanism has brought much to be thankful for in our lives including
>Affirmative Action. We would not be here on line together discussing
>gender issues unless good people had made significant inroads. While
>there are some women who hate men and visa vi they may or may not be
>Feminists/Humanists. i think that 'Feminazi' is an unfortunate term as
>neither Nazism support women's or men's rights and Feminism does not
>support Nazism. i do not believe Feminism has destroyed th fabric of
>society or th family. Rather Feminism believes and works for th equality
>of both women and men in every aspect of working and family life.
>best regards, sylvi macCormac
> / na / da / bc
>siwash rock and sounscape
>mc squared dj babbling brook
>grrrl dis abled in vaudeville
>Kevin Austin wrote:
>>In my experience, we all seek greater tolerance from others.

99% of aliens prefer Earth

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