Re: Numbers (was:Re: Osborne response - Cyberfeminism)


Subject: Re: Numbers (was:Re: Osborne response - Cyberfeminism)
From: miriam clinton (iriXx) (iriXx@iriXx.org)
Date: Tue Jan 11 2005 - 12:24:11 EST


a bitter taste indeed...

but don't you think that the bitterness of feminism is twice as bad?

women started off, as suffragettes, wanting equality... now they've
toppled the scales, and its an ugly sight... its a sad sight to see a
man subdued into a woman's slave...

whatever happened to equality in this discussion, btw?

mC~
Kevin Austin wrote:

> I would suggest a reading of historical texts first ... the Old and
> New Testaments, the Koran and the teachings of Confucius as places to
> start before asserting that this is a "modern" (or even western)
> condition.
>
> For another (bitter) taste to of this, Google "foot binding" / "China".
>
> You may also want to look up the pictures in the 1808 edition of
> "Peiwenzhai gengzhitu", and the 1905 edition of "Qinding shujing
> tushuo" (they are reproduced in J K Fairbank's "China -- A New History
> (1992)).
>
> Best
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>> > I'm interested to know, have you any ideas on why there was only one
>>
>>> female student in your class this year? I am continually glad that
>>> there are a great many people like you out there, many of whom I've
>>> had
>>> the privilege to teach or who have taught me by example. I'm just
>>> trying to probe an issue which I think is wider....
>>>
>>> all best
>>>
>>> Katharine
>>
>>
>>
>> This is an interesting issue without a doubt, and I wish you the best
>> of luck on your probing. There is a major lack of female students in
>> electroacoustic classes, but I don't think the male students are to
>> blame...
>>
>> who/what is to blame IMV
>>
>> 1. The school system: a well-planned conditioning of a state's youth.
>> The embedding of gender-role concepts into the foundation of one's
>> thought, disguised as academia. Formerly controlled by the church,
>> this is how the government plants its seed in our minds, but we can
>> smell that corporations are planning a take-over.
>>
>> 2. Pop-media: There was a time when the church WAS pop-media. Now
>> it's the corporate version of the school system, perhaps even more
>> powerfull. Alot can be learned by reading a cosmopolitan magazine, or
>> by watching baywatch.
>>
>> 3. Parents: They are themselves victims of the above propaganda, and
>> as such perpetuate the cycle. Assimilated by consumerism, they focus
>> on acquiring more wealth, leaving their children to be raised by the
>> school system and pop-media.
>>
>> These are the top 3 enteties of childhood influence. Any mentality
>> which is rampant in a society will most likely find its roots in 1.
>> or 2.
>>
>> To conclude, why are female students less likely to be interested in
>> the field of electroacoustics? I believe you will find the answer if
>> you probe the schoolsystem and pop-media. What a long and ugly
>> process............ tell me if I can
>>
>> help.
>>
>> good luck
>>
>> nick
>>
>>
>> Quoting Katharine Norman <katharine@novamara.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2005, at 4:24 PM, n_kondon@alcor.concordia.ca wrote:
>>> >
>>> > All this to say that I really doubt that high-school boys would ever
>>> > organize
>>> > to exclude any girls from taking part in a field dear to them.
>>> Without
>>> > girls,
>>> > it would be a "territory" wasted...
>>>
>>> Rap aside... yes, I agree on both counts ....I think what I was
>>> pursuing (not necessarily holding up as proven for all high-school
>>
>> > humanity) is the notion that a behaviour/mindset might be
>> unconsciously acquired, by some
>> >
>>
>>> Personally I feel we all risk adopting language and behavior that
>>> inadvertently excludes at times - policing ourselves round-the-clock
>>> mindlessly can result in ridiculous over-sensitivity from both genders
>>
>> > (in the case of gender issues) but on the other hand, drawing
>> attention to it for once can make you think. For instance, someone in
>> passing just wrote to me that "One man's evening of laptop is another
>> man's evening of torture"; I knew exactly what he meant, and I knew
>> for sure there was no overt exclusion intended - but it grated a little.
>> >
>>
>>> For a nice take on this kind of unconscious linguistic
>>> territory-mapping, have a listen to Pamela Z's "Geekspeak", it's very
>>> funny and not specifically about gender. (well, I think it's
>>> funny.....)
>>>
>>> >
>>> > ps. is there a word that gender-neutralizes brotherhood and
>>> > sisterhood? like
>>> > um.. siblinghood?
>>> >
>>>
>>> dunno.....community? ain't language annoying.
>>>
>>>
>>> > otherwise. I, for one, am displeased at the fact that there is only
>>
>> > > one girl in my E/A class this semester, and the semester before
>> that, but if it wasn't for her, I could have felt much worse.
>> >
>
>
>

-- 
99% of aliens prefer Earth
--Eminem

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