Re: electroacoustics - rap to tap

Subject: Re: electroacoustics - rap to tap
From: Michael Gogins (
Date: Thu Jul 01 2004 - 20:52:09 EDT

I agree with this notion of a fascism of tolerance -- that's one of the
things that makes me mad, in case I've failed to make that clear.

But I think that revolutions against these fascisms frequently result in
Terrors and new fascisms. I think a nice warm gooey sea of McTolerance,
distasteful though it be to my elitist taste, it actually a rather nice
place to live and work.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Lyon" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: electroacoustics - rap to tap

> On Jul 1, 2004, at 6:59 PM, Richard Wentk wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm not interested in whether it's nostalgically modernist or not.
> > It's more that I've been thinking a lot recently about the use of
> > signifiers in art, and (after a long discussion about photographer
> > Sally Mann on a different list) I began to wonder if perhaps after
> > post-modernism rather too much art, popular and academic, had confused
> > creativity with a now very predictable process of shuffling and/or
> > repeating and/or challenging already familiar signifiers, whether
> > they're musical, social, sexual, or otherwise part of the existing
> > cultural furniture.
> >
> That may be true, but isn't the "process of shuffling and/or repeating
> and/or challenging already familiar signifiers" an important part of
> western music throughout its history (plainchant, parody mass, sonata
> form, etc.) and not just post-modernism?
> > It's true that modernism eventually evaporated into almost Platonic
> > inscrutability [1], but everything about the process of Being A Modern
> > Composer was still rooted firmly in pre-Modernist ideals, and the
> > music and the culture around it still leaned heavily on those ideals.
> >
> > All of which is the exact opposite of what I'm suggesting.
> >
> > You may well be right that it isn't possible. But I'm still left with
> > the feeling that music at the moment is trapped in various rigid
> > methodologies of creation, performance and consumption, all the way
> > from disposable pop to world to academic to the kinds of noodlings you
> > can read about in The Wire. Attempting to soften boundaries across
> > styles isn't going to help when there's so much common ground and so
> > much mythology shared across all styles - and as I see that's the
> > place that's pinching a little.
> >
> I like this interpretation very much because it's the opposite of how
> contemporary music practice viewed broadly seems on the surface. On the
> surface it appears that there is no common ground, no dominant
> stylistic orthodoxy (even pop music is seriously fragmented into
> genres), no agreement about what music is or even in some cases the
> difference between music and noise. Are you saying then that acceptance
> of this lack of common ground constitutes a new kind of orthodoxy, a
> fascism of tolerance? That's very cool if it's what you meant. Do you
> see any way out of the trap? Or is the trap so pleasant that there's no
> reason to escape?
> Eric

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