From: Simon Emmerson (S.Emmerson@dmu.ac.uk)
Date: Sat May 28 2011 - 11:24:55 EDT
Exactly - that's why my remark was a bit silly - *any* such generalisations (such as mine) are.
These misunderstandings are everywhere ...
s/
Simon Emmerson
Professor of Music, Technology and Innovation
Faculty of Humanities
De Montfort University
Leicester LE1 9BH
Tel. 0116-207-8238
email: S.Emmerson@dmu.ac.uk
http://www.mti.dmu.ac.uk/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cec-conference@concordia.ca on behalf of peiman khosravi
Sent: Sat 28-May-11 11:46
To: cec-conference@concordia.ca
Subject: Re: Pierre Schaeffer translations
Also on a serous note. The concept is just as misunderstood in the UK. I
often hear people refering to 'concrete' music, meaning sample-based
music. Or they talk about 'sound object' as an objective entity (e.g.
sample). There is also the silly distinction between concrete music and
computer music...
Best,
Peiman
On 28/05/2011 10:21, Simon Emmerson wrote:
> Exactly - no contradiction I think - but we re-run our conversation of last year!
> let us check the cec archives!
> s/
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cec-conference@concordia.ca on behalf of Pierre Couprie
> Sent: Sat 28-May-11 09:38
> To: cec-conference@concordia.ca
> Subject: Re: Pierre Schaeffer translations
>
> Le 28 mai 2011 à 10:19, Simon Emmerson a écrit :
>
>> ps - to make a serious point. The discussion last year I summarise what I said and believed.
>> Musique concrète is not defined as 'a music made with recorded real world sound' but -
>> an attitude to how to compose with recorded sound without recourse to symbolic notation but dealing only with its perception.
> Simon, I think it is not really exact. With "musique concrète", Schaeffer meant: compose from sound to create abstract musical structures (like in concrete music). He used "abstract music" for the opposite: an abstract structure (in the thought of the composer) which become music (like in instrumental music or early german electronic music).
>
> Pierre
>
>> It can - and did - include electronically synthesised sound (yes). Because -
>> Once recorded 'reduced listening' bracketed out its origins but -
>> Schaeffer hated electronically synthesised sound because -
>> it was intrinsically 'impoverished' compared to 'real' acoustically produced sound.
>>
>> My inconsiderate remark was prompted specifically by John Dack's telling us (and I did not know) that A la recherche d'une musique concrète was due out soon - I didn't know - in this book (1952 - the French version was reissued in 2008). He recounts the path to these discoveries and ideas in a wonderful diary and discussion. These ideas emerge there slowly and painfully - often with humour and irony ...
>>
>> Apologies again if I caused offence to anybody (well I did admit it was a rant and rants do tend to be irrational!).
>>
>> I'll bow out ...
>> simon
>>
>> Simon Emmerson
>> Professor of Music, Technology and Innovation
>> Faculty of Humanities
>> De Montfort University
>> Leicester LE1 9BH
>>
>> Tel. 0116-207-8238
>> email: S.Emmerson@dmu.ac.uk
>> http://www.mti.dmu.ac.uk/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-cec-conference@concordia.ca on behalf of Simon Emmerson
>> Sent: Sat 28-May-11 08:54
>> To: cec-conference@concordia.ca
>> Subject: RE: Pierre Schaeffer translations
>>
>> Dear Kevin
>>
>> I meant it in jest and assure you I really do admire much from that side of the pond. I realise how words can be misinterpreted when written and not spoken with a smile (as in texts! - I was indirectly referring to a very fruitful (I thought) discussion on cec about a year ago on the meaning of 'concrete'. I unreservedly withdraw - though I do enjoy a good 'discussion' - but no insults - ever!
>>
>> best wishes
>> Simon
>>
>> Simon Emmerson
>> Professor of Music, Technology and Innovation
>> Faculty of Humanities
>> De Montfort University
>> Leicester LE1 9BH
>>
>> Tel. 0116-207-8238
>> email: S.Emmerson@dmu.ac.uk
>> http://www.mti.dmu.ac.uk/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-cec-conference@concordia.ca on behalf of kevin parks
>> Sent: Fri 27-May-11 23:24
>> To: cec-conference@concordia.ca
>> Subject: Re: Pierre Schaeffer translations
>>
>> I was knew of some of John Dack's extraordinary efforts and the wonderful DMU EARS website. But I was unaware that so much new work by John Dack and Christine North and others was ongoing and apparently imminent! I am anxious to see these key projects published. Imagine if, for example, Adorno or Dahlhaus was only now being translated in to English? Where would musicology be? It is hard to overstate the importance of Schaeffer's ideas to composition and aesthetics, not to mention the various creative and critical responses of those ideas.
>>
>> The Michel Chion text is of course a treasure trove. I was just discussing this last night with another cec list member over the phone last evening.
>>
>> What prompted my query was not so much that I need help groking the theories (though help on that front is always welcome as there is some much more I need to learn and Schaeffer published so much) but, I was curious about translations because of a scholarly need to reference primary sources. But much has come of this thread already. I am overwhelmed and will revisit the DMU EARS items and many of the other items mentioned here. I enjoy Kim Suk-Jun's music so I will try to look at his paper as well. I am sure I will learn much.
>>
>> Professor Emmerson's swipe, minor as it was saddens and disappoints me. Largely because I am an admirer of his music and scholarship and also as I cant help but feel that it insults the many excellent American music teachers I have had. I should be used to it now having lived a large portion of my life overseas but it smarts a little. Oh well.
>>
>> Many thanks to everyone who responded. I will take some time and go through the flurry of messages& links that have arrived and maybe be back (or not) with more queries.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Kevin Parks
>> University of Virginia, Music Dept.
>>
>>
>>
>> <winmail.dat>
>
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