From: BenFed express (benfed@intraversal.de)
Date: Sat Sep 18 2010 - 15:09:54 EDT
Hello again
... and thanks to everyone who contributed so far. All of my source
material is stereo or 4-ch recordings, so point sources are not an
option. Thanks to Rick for the link to Otondo's article. It was an
interesting read but does not really apply to my case because of the
2ch/4ch precondition – at least as I read it. There is an interesting
parallel, though. If I want to "move" a stereo recording in from either
side it will only then sound believable when I start with the according
stereo channel near the sound field's center / sweet spot, which
approximately corresponds to the article's sound integration circle.
> [1] There is no need for 5.1. Your source materials are two or four channels. The 'missing' channel is the front center, and since you do not have this, it is better not to try to create one.
That is right of course. Since I love doing things I was told I
shouldn't do, I am going to keep some artificially produced sound
"movements". These are:
1) a voice coming from C, widening into full L/R stereo, then leaving to L;
2) several voices starting L/R, panning to RL or RR.
In both cases I also automated volume and high/low cut filtering to
simulate the changing distances. It works – at least in the studio.
Certainly a lot of other sound going on at the same time(s) helps
masking phase artifacts . I'll have a couple of days before the
presentation for rehearsal in the hall. So if anything goes bad I'll
still have the option to go back to the studio. I am curious how my
sound "movements" will translate to the hall especially after reading
aforementioned article.
> [2] ... In Kontakte, KS "moved" sound from speaker to speaker not by using panning, but by rotating a loudspeaker and picking up the results with four mics. To 'reproduce' this method, it might be possible [??] to set up four mics and a pair of speakers travels down a path between them. In doing this, there would be the necessary phase, amplitude and timing cues.
Since I first heard about this "worldizing" in film sound I am really
curious about it. I definitely will give it a try eventually.
> [3] ... It is a practical problem that high speed trajectories encounter when the piece leaves the studio. In the studio, the sound may appear to 'rotate', but in the concert hall, the streaming may split apart and the 'rotation' becomes a mass-structure.
Thanks for giving words to my gut feeling.
> As an extension to this, if you do consider going to more channels, you would go to six (three stereo pairs), eight (four stereo pairs), ten ... twelve ...
I am having another gut feeling that this would require different mic
angles (when speakers are placed in circle or oval shape) or even
opposing mics (when speakers are placed along the audience like surround
in cinema) to actually work. The Zoom H2 has two mic pairs at 90°
("front") and 120° ("back") facing in opposing directions. In my 5.1
speaker setup I can switch "front" and "back" recordings and it sounds
okay. Now when I place either "front" or "back" recording to a "stereo"
pair at the side (i.e. L and RL or R and RR) or even diagonally
something weird happens. I have not examined it closely, though...
> One way I have heard a number of composers "move" the stereo sound
> from front to back when the materials are soundscapes is in fact,
> "not" to move the sound, but rather to fade up similar material (or
> the same material time delayed by a few seconds or more).
I can second that. Lucky me had two recordings with the same chanting on
it which presented a nice opportunity to "move" it (someone give me a
better name for that, please) from front to back while introducing the
next scene in the front. Sure, your ears know they've been tricked but
as Kevin said, the mind is forgiving.
> 3) ... I only replicated the goodold diffusion tricks, but with my LCR sent to the front options, and the LsRs sent to inner room loudspeakers and the backwards. And I multiplied the inner space of the music (composed in the studio) by choosing the right speaker combination as I went.
Pierre, could you please elaborate on that? If I understand correctly
the front options are additional front speakers but what do you mean by
"inner room" speakers? On the sides or really "inside" the room? How?
Maybe you got a nice picture of your, i.e. GRM's, setup...? :)
Well, and John, about your two thingies. I think it's okay as long as
localization works for you (and others concerned).
.beni
BTW if anyone of you is near Basel / Switzerland on 1st of October and
wants to listen in for him/herself let me know. There's also another
master diploma with electroacoustic pieces and improvisation on the 2nd.
-- www.intraversal.de <http://www.intraversal.de>
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