From: Andres Cabrera (mantaraya36@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Sep 02 2010 - 16:15:21 EDT
Hi,
I'm liking what I've seen... Is there a mailing list or group for
questions and discussion?
Cheers,
Andrés
2010/9/2 Olivier Bélanger <belangeo@gmail.com>:
> Wow... what a mess for a release!!!
>
> I can discuss the "why pyo", that's a good question! I have also a word
> about the other possibilities of Python and sound.
>
> First, Python is my workaday language, for different tasks, and I'm a
> musician who want to code is music. I used (and continue to use) for many
> years Max, Csound and sometimes SuperCollider and these are great programs.
> The reason I searched for something else is all these programs have their
> own individual syntax and are mostly devoted to sound. I just wanted
> something more general that can generate sound. Python was the best for me
> but there was no usable sound module in it... so, this is for the "why"!
>
> Now, the alternatives:
>
> 1 - using http://sndobj.sourceforge.net/ as Michal as suggested. It's
> already a big project.
>
> Yes, it's a great piece of work from Victor L., but it's a C++ library.
> PySndObj is SndObj wrapped with Swig. Wrappers are not an alternative for
> me... I tried Swig and the generated python code are very slow. Also, for a
> python module, I think it should be simpler...
>
> 2 - controlling Csound with Python (internally, a strong integration).
>
> Cecilia, Ounk... I know the game! I wrote pyo especially to replace Ounk (a
> python layer over Csound). I want a single integrated environment!
>
> 3 - controlling SuperCollider server with Python (via OSC).
>
> Same thing... control layer + audio layer = lots of work around, problems,
> ... Anyway SuperCollider doesn't need to be controlled with Python! It's
> already a master piece for sound. But a little bit complicated (it's only my
> opinion!) and its not a language for general programming.
>
> 4 - controlling many other sws (e.g. Max/MSP) using Python via OSC. There
> was also an external for PD allowing to use Python.
>
> I used nyptho when I was working with Max, nice object, but also limitted in
> some ways... My point is to have Python generating sound from an interface
> written with Python. I don't want another software running under my app.
>
> I think I cover all points! pyo is very useful for me, and maybe for someone
> else, I hope! I alreay use it for my SoundGrain software (as a replacement
> for Csound) and seriously, it is simpler to code, a lot more CPU efficient,
> no more OSC pipes under cover...
>
> http://code.google.com/p/soundgrain/
>
> Voilà , have a nice day!
>
> Olivier
>
> Le 2 septembre 2010 13:30, Andrea Valle <valle@di.unito.it> a écrit :
>>
>> It seems that everyone is disappointed by the expression "reinveinting the
>> wheel".
>> Well, I just want to point out, and I quit the discussion because I was
>> only interested in the "why pyo" issue, that I wrote:
>>>
>>> at the moment to me, from the external, it might seem that you're
>>> reinventing the wheel
>>
>> as you see, it's quite cautious, as it contains: "to me", "at the moment"
>> "might seem".
>> It's *not* "you have reinvented the wheel", evidently.
>> Modal semantics would have helped.
>> In any case, best wishes to the project and to Olivier's work.
>> Best
>> -a-
>>
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Richard Dobson wrote:
>>
>> I will jump in here and make a few observations:
>>
>> there is no such thing as "reinventing ~the~ wheel" - we continually need
>> all sorts of different wheels, for different vehicles. Wheels are being
>> invented all the time.
>>
>> While may composers love the idea of mixing languages - Python linking to
>> SuperCollider running PD patches or whatever, in short - finding the most
>> elaborate and complex way possible to do things (which is also a "wheel", i
>> guess), Â there is also a virtue in having as much as possible within one
>> language. SndObj is especially appropriate for people already working in C++
>> (STK being another).
>>
>> For many people, Python is their introduction to programming (remember it
>> was promoted by the author as "a new BASIC"), and the last thing such people
>> will want to deal with is talking to multiple external languages and
>> environments. Confronted with the potential hideousness of trying to connect
>> Python to SuperCollider (or whatever) via OSC (itself not exactly
>> straightforward), being able to do audio things entirely within a single
>> scripting environment is very appealing.
>>
>> And the idea of "switching" from one all-encompassing environment to
>> another in some exclusive way is also IMO a snare and delusion. There is no
>> imperative that says people need to do that. You can  use pyo (or whatever)
>> and still use SC, PD, Csound whatever as well. Why not? Use it all! Â Be
>> diverse and flexible!
>>
>> Richard Dobson
>>
>> On 02/09/2010 16:35, Andrea Valle wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> Audio software and programming (you know it very well) is a wide
>>
>> scenario, with a lot of things going on.
>>
>> About Python and audio, I can imagine different situations:
>>
>> - using http://sndobj.sourceforge.net/ as Michal as suggested. It's
>>
>> already a big project
>>
>> - controlling Csound with Python (internally, a strong integration)
>>
>> - controlling SuperCollider server with Python (via OSC)
>>
>> - controlling many other sws (e.g. Max/MSP) using Python via OSC. There
>>
>> was also an external for PD allowing to use Python, if I remember
>> correctly
>>
>> Or, directly using another language, e.g. SuperCollider, is a possible
>>
>> option.
>>
>> So, I will be happy to know more about the rationale behind pyo. I'm
>>
>> sure there is, and I could switch to pyo.
>>
>> And it would be healthy for Oliver's project to discuss these issues.
>>
>> You're evidently not ready to discuss them (you're not been able in two
>>
>> posts), but I'm confident he is. And I will be grateful.
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Andrea Valle
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> CIRMA - DAMS
>> Università degli Studi di Torino
>> -->Â http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
>> -->Â http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
>> -->Â http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/
>> --> Â http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle
>> -->Â andrea.valle@unito.it
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> " This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta
>> outs, a lotta what-have-yous."
>> (Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)
>>
>>
>
>
-- Andrés
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